Donnie Darko Boy: Clinical reflections on the movie Donnie Darko
Dear students and self-educated, home-schooled scholars, I'll be posting specific questions in the near future as it concerns clinical psychology and its application to the movie, Donnie Darko. For now, here's a song that came to my head this morning as I was reflecting on the movie. It's called...
Donnie Darko Boy
Dr BLT
words and music by Dr BLT © 2009
(except part adapted from traditional
folk song, O Danny Boy)
In my world of blog n roll, I provide the topics and the tunes, and you provide the talk. Today's topic is Reflections on the Movie Donnie Darko. After checking out the movie, or revisiting it if you've already watched it, and after listening to the song, consider these questions, and then respond to the best of your understanding and knowledge:
In the movie, there is a scene in the classroom in which a scene in a book is discussed, involving children discovering vast sums of money, and burning it. This act was committed in accordance with a motive and a reasoning process consistent with Derrida's philosophy of Deconstruction, involving, in effect, tearing down traditional structures, institutions and traditional symbols as part of a natural creative process.
Derrida was the "punk" or, the Johnny Rotten, if you will, of philosophy, playing with words in irreverant ways, and taking liberties with language that, before then, would have been considered, well, you just didn't want to go there. An example of a Derrida's approach to words is contained in the evolution of the word "bad" during the 80s, helped along by Michael Jackson's hit, Bad, in which a word that traditionally meant one thing, was altered to mean something quite different, in a sense, it's near antithesis.
As it concerns mental illness, one could also play with the word mad, which already has taken on two distinctively different meanings. Mad can mean "mentally ill or deranged" or "angry." Do a little research, even if it's simply a short internet surfing adventure, and see what else you can find out about the philosophy of destruction, and its possible applicability to clinical assessment. Then "riddle me this":
What are the implications of Derrida's philosophy of deconstruction to traditional approaches to understanding treating mental illness?
In the movie, the phenomenon of schizophrenia is juxtaposed with a phenomenon that is, though controversial in some acdademic circles, highly respected in others, especially in Quantum Physics, the phenomenon of time travel.
If you believe time travel is possible, how do tease apart where schizophrenia begins and ends with Donnie Darko, and where time travel and its concomitant or corresponding features begin and end? Could what is being regarded as mental illness, in Donnie's case, be a gift? Is it possible for a mental health condition to be both an illness and a gift?
a. curing the patient through medication
b. curing the patient through hypnosis
c. curing the patient through psychotherapy
d. curing the patient through a combination of medication and psychotherapy
e. leaving the mental illness alone, and allowing the person to self-destruct, and before
helping him to rebuild
f. allowing the suffering person to use his/her suffering and concomitant symptoms as a teacher,
and a healer
g. other_____________________________________________________________________
That's enough for now. Take your time with these and really ponder them, don't rush to try to get them completed before your Wednesday class. There will likely be a part II with additional questions in a few days.
Donnie Boy Darko
Dr BLT
words and music by Dr BLT
Donnie Darko boy
he's a travelin' man
travelin' fast in space
travelin' lost in time
what he sees, we don't
we don't understand
Donnie's in a another world
he's in another land
chorus I:
Donnie Darko boy X4
Donnie's world is dark
Donnie's world is cold
void of all that's real
void of things we feel
how it all began
what's in his twisted plans
you don't wanna know
you don't wanna take that chance
(chorus I)
Chorus II:
Oh Donnie boy
your world is not
where we reside
it's far removed
from anything we know
Oh Donnie boy
you've left behind the real world
and all that's left
is all that's lost control
(chorus I)
Posted by Bruce L Thiessen Ph D at 9/1/2009 8:13 AM 
Categories: movie analysis
Tags: Donnie Darko Donnie Darko movie analysis
Categories: movie analysis
Tags: Donnie Darko Donnie Darko movie analysis
This is truly complex, as I do belief that this philosophy of destruction has some weight to it. I have constantly heard the repeated phrases of "things having to get worse before they could get better" or " hitting rock bottom will help to reaffirm goals" these suggesting that all has to become chaotic, in an effort, to find a resolution at a later time. Donnie Darko felt that he needed obey Frank as this would provide him with the "bigger picture" at the end. He felt that he needed to carry out these orders as they too had a benefit of some sort, which in his delusion was for the good. For example, burning the motivational speakers house down, and it leading to his kiddy porn exposure. In the movie, before the engine falls in his room and kills him, it showed a very satisfied Donnie Darko. As, he was able to see Frank's final picture, and by timetravel have the ability to reverse and undo all that according to him was done.
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I agree with Elida. She makes great points. However, I believe that the philosophy of deconstruction can go hand in hand with traditional methods of treating mental illness. The philosophy of deconstruction is a method of criticism against the norm. There would be different questions to ask and other ways of interpreting Donnie's delusions. Deconstruction would allow us to specify the critical differences in Donnie's belief in time travel, the rabbit and the belief that his therapist had of his mental illness. I know this is just a movie but I need to understand when did all of these situations happen .the movie starts, Donnie comes home, they all go to sleep, the jet engine falls and Donnie dies. When and where did all the living come from? Was the whole movie based on milliseconds before the jet engine fell and killed Donnie? Someone please tell me. Thanks
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I am still a bit confused with the meaning of philosophy of destruction. Even the the word "destruction" has a negative connotation attached to it. I really had to try to separate the common meaning from the philosophy.
I really don't know if I put any "weight" to the theory. I have heard the phrases mentioned above. I do believe that some people have to hit rock bottom before they are able to work their way up or out of their situation. Donnie was so consumed with finding out the "truth" and so focused that he felt he had to do whatever it took to almost fulfill his destiny whether it was good or bad. In his mind he was trying to do good by doing horrendous things.
I searched a bit about the philospy of destruction and often found it a hard read. But, what I did understand (I think), is how there is internal contradiction or opposing meanings within itself. There were examples in the movie that illustrates this point, the burning of the house is one example.
The word "destruction" can mean "to undo", to maybe strip away the layers of oneself to get to the true meaning. Does this make sense?
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First Question:
Well, first of all it isn't so much Derrida’s idea of “Destruction” as it was Heidegger’s. That being said the idea tied with the burning of the money suggests that current points of value must be reevaluated or destroyed in order to come to knowledge of true value or purpose in our existence. As some would say, “you don’t know what you had until you lose it all.” At such point realistic appreciation can take place in a point where logic and emotion meet as equals without the barriers of self or externally imposed beliefs. Problem with this is not everything should be questioned so vigorously or at least with such cynicism that correct explanations, albeit simple, would have sufficed. As the philosopher Emmanuel Lavinas would suggest is that the problem with getting to the bottom of something, deconstructing every aspect, where the original point is destroyed, is that sometimes you find yourself in the same place. But as we all know sometimes the truth is so obvious and before our feet that we don’t see and keep on digging until we find ourselves in a hole where the answer is up top where we first started. So to the question of understanding and treating mental illness, yes there is reason, a etiological explanation for a pathological course, but what is in front of us is the symptoms and distress and dysfunction. And while not in all cases, but in certainly some, we just need to treat the patient. Meaning treat the problem, not the cause, as the cause maybe neither here nor there, it’s too late to go back and try to fix things that can’t be undone, but instead, look forward and see what can be done about it now. I think this is clearly depending on the patients past and wishes and what is being presented in treatment, and of course on the therapist’s therapeutic orientation. But let’s remember, as with solution-focused or motivational interviewing, focus is on the present and future, for the past is the past.
Third Question:
(D)
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Second Question:
As for the second question, I would need a book to describe my ideas on time and existence, which do include theories on time travel or multiple existence in one time or multiple times, and how time may actually be a physical property that cannot be separated from spatial matter. The working title to all these unwritten ideas is “Omnipresent: Understanding Ourselves By Knowing God.” It’s an exploration into meta-cognitive presence in relation to symbiotic associations made within ourselves, God, others, and all that is around us, including that which “exist”s, once “exist”ed and is coming into “exist”ence and how in a single point it all can unite at a seemly moving place and time that is in an conceptual idea of the present. It is self actualization at its finest, knowledge that is pure and all-knowing, for it lives in all times, one would simply have to live within such mental plane and be aware, and awake to listening and being, and living it. Such Psycho kinetic awareness suggests amazing ideas. As it relates to schizophrenia, if such possibilities are possible, such mental processes could be so much for one to handle that the mind's attempt to made sense of it all is to manifest more harmful interpretations and impress on an individual to make conclusions that serve as what we know to be delusions. And also, as one way to get through a door is to break it down, maybe even human trauma can unloosen these possibilities, but with tragic results where a person who suffered only suffers more for not only the persons inability to cope and process, but more importantly for the mind to manifest correct information of stimuli “real” or from the “split existence.” In either case, I would not go so far as to call it a gift, but an illness. For if manifested correctly, such awareness would not be scary, distressful, or debilitating, but a revelation. It is probably safe to assume that if abnormal dysfunction is created, self-destructive behavior develops, complete loss of mental processing in a coherent manner, or uncalled for emotional deregulation occurs then it is probably an illness regardless of the cause. For the lack to cope is the lack to cope. As in where there is suffering, there is pain, and where there is pain, there is a hurt, and what hurts must be mended.
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If psychologists followed Derrida's philosophy of destruction, they wouldn't be able to diagnose clients with specific DSM diagnosis. If Michael Jackson can make the word "bad" mean something completely different than what people believed, than any mental illness diagnosis can definitely be turned around to mean something completely different than first thought of.
In Donnie's case, his mental illness can be regarded as a gift because in his mind he was able to save the world and be a hero to Frank, Gretchen, and probably the rest of the world. Before his death he was laughing which could indicate that he was happy and he did see himself as a "gift" or a "hero".
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Dr. BLT,
In response to the questions that you gave to us regarding Donnie Darko. Why not use all of them, why limit yourself to just one or two ways to treat a client. We are taught to think out of the box. If one method does not work go on to another one and tailor your treatment to the client not to yourself. You stated that your philosophy was to help people who were suffering. Suffering is a test, and if we pass through the suffering we are a stronger person because of it. The Lord (to paraphrase)said that when he closed one door that he would open another. I feel that it is our job as future MFT's to guide the person in such a manner to where he/she wants to be and beyond. If I can help maybe just one person that is suffering than all the years of training, the overnighters, the tests, are worth every penny that we paid for. If we didn't have the helping personally then we would not be in the field.
God created man in his own image,then why couldn't God create other beings that are much older than our infant society? Beings that have mastered (?) time travel? Look at all the great thinkers in history, Plato, Socrates, Newton, Michelangelo, these men where far ahead in thinking, and rationalizing of mainstream society of their day, so much so a lot of people thought they were crazy, nuts, or what ever. Were they crazy or were they thinkers? Were they given a gift of some type? Who is to say that people might see things that other people may not be able to see. We label them as being ill. Each person is unique, and if a person thinks differently than the rest of society we say that he needs help to think the way we want or think the way society wants him to think. Our job is to help the suffering, I could care less if the person may be green, or purple, if they are suffering than it is our duty not only as MFT's but as human beings to help relieve that suffering.
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One Topic at a Time.
I found very little on Derrida’s “philosophy of destruction” and much more on his ideas about “deconstruction.” What I understand the “DESTRUCTION philosophy” to mean is that one must break something down to its genesis in order to rebuild in a completely different fashion.
The implications of this philosophy in treating mental illness are similar to that of learning tennis: It is much easier to learn to play tennis correctly if one does not have to unlearn playing incorrectly first. In other words, if you are using a CBT method to treat an undesirable behavior, you must first understand the genesis of that behavior. Taking apart or “destructing” the old undesirable behavior is necessary before a new more desirable replacement can be learned. If this is not done first, then I believe that the individual will continue to “default” to the old behavior, especially in times of stress.
I think Derrida’s philosophy of deconstruction is also applicable to the treating of mental illness. In a magazine article discussing the controversial philosopher, the writer states “deconstruction can be read in a similar way to delimiting; it defines the boundaries that may only be contorted and stretched, not broken, in any construction. For Derrida, the outside is always already confined and defined within the inside” (Stephens, 1991). This can also be true of finding the healthy person inside the unhealthy exterior of someone that is experiencing mental health issues. I understand this to mean that you cannot change who the person is, but you can change how they behave.
Stephens, M. (1991). Deconstructing Jacques Derrida; The most reviled professor in the world defends his diabolically difficult theory. "Los Angeles Times Magazine". July 21, 1991.
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Treating a schizophrenic.
In response to: What should be one's goal in treating a schizophrenic patient?
G: Other. I don’t believe we can cure anyone. I think that practitioners can only ease suffering by providing people with knowledge that they do not currently possess, which may help them change behaviors that they find uncomfortable or unacceptable. So, a very noncommittal “it depends” from me on the subject of treating schizophrenic patients.
Quite frankly, I do not have enough knowledge to really understand schizophrenia. I only know from reading about the subject (and some personal experience) that in most cases medication is the only real relief from problematic symptoms.
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This was a very complex movie and constantly kept me guessing as to what was real and what was "delusioned". Schizophrenia is most definitely difficult if near impossible to treat because no one treatment will necessarily work and what works with one will not necessarily work with another. The issue of Frank is an interesting one because you aren't sure if it is one big delusion or if it is the result of his "gift" of time travel. Concerning time travel, it is an interesting concept, but I don't think it is possible and if it was the ramifications of doing it would probably outweigh the benefits. Lastly the theory of destruction: I believe that once something is destroyed it gives you the opportunity to rebuild and make things better than before.
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I think that, according to Derrida, Donnie lived in a world that we may construe as madness, but this world was his actual reality. If we look at the word "mad" for instance it can mean angry or crazy. It could one day have a completely different meaning and be incorporated to include someone who has a different sense of reality from everyone else, therefore, changing the meaning or reality of the word mad. You could treat schizophrenics as their illness relates to their world and their reality, because even though it may seem fictional to us, it is in fact their reality and may be causing them serious harm. Just because a person was not in reality molested, does not mean that they may have delusions that they were and it can have the same impact on their psyche as if they really were molested because in their reality, they were. So, we should try to make the patient more comfortable by treating with meds when necessary and also applying therapeuitic intervention to help ease their psychological pain. To the outside world, Donnie appeared delusional, but in his own reality (and in the reality of others such as sparrow and the physics teacher) he was definately receiving glimpses of the future as shown to him by Frank. If one believes Donnie's reality, he is not crazy at all. He is just capable of seeing things we cannot.
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The implications of Derrida’s philosophy of destruction on traditional approaches used to understand mental illness are complicated. Like Derrida sought to examine the interior and exterior meaning of philosophy, approaches to understanding and treating mental illness can be considered similarly. Derrida hunted for meaning from every angle and aspect of the concept. In understanding and treating mental illness a similar approach can be used and would benefit the patient because it would examine the issues presented by the diagnosis and analyze their impact on the individual in various platforms from physical, emotional, social, relational etc.
In treating schizophrenia the best approach would be to use a combination of medication and psychotherapy. This diagnosis presents differently in every individual and would be best addressed from the organic and chemical standpoint with the use of appropriate medications; however, medications alone would not completely address all the issues the individual would likely be facing. Psychotherapy would assist in bridging the gaps in what the individual perceives and what they are actually experiencing. It would also provide a multitude of other beneficial tools that would assist the individual in coping with the diagnosis, symptoms, possible side effects of meds, etc
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There are many clients who may not have a basic understanding of what are certain mental illnesses. Derrida’s philosophy could hinder the basic meaning of an illness because they could soften the meaning of the particular illness. It is important not to label individual who come into therapy with a diagnosis because this individual comes into therapy with their own emotions problems. It is important to see people for who they are by knowing their history and background, which could possibly assist the therapist with learning how to help them. Most clients come into therapy needing help with particular situations, so therapist should take the time to listen their clients to figure out how to help them. Therapists error with their clients by placing labels on clients to please third party insurances.
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Question #2: For treating schizophrenia, I would think would be the combination of therapy and medication. The main goal would to be to manage the symptoms (since there is not a cure), so the person can be able to function in every day life to the best of their ability. As therapist, we would want to relieve their pain and suffering as much as possible and give them the coping mechanisms to survive.
I think therapist do have to think outside the box. What may work for one patient may not work for others. Since every person is such a unique individual with different ideas, thoughts, upbringing, and personalities, we have to tailor each method to that individual. I'm assuming it can be a trial and error process. But, the main goal is to help that person live a fullfilled and productive life whatever that may mean to that individual.
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I agree with what Leann and others have said about treating the client with both medication and therapy. What I have known about schizophrenic patients, as can be with any illness, many of them choose not to take the medications once they are feeling better which after a while takes them back to square one. But I agree with the idea of trying to ease the client's suffering and frustration with medication and therapy!
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I believe we must treat the client with medication and therapy. One must attempt to stop as many delusions as possible with meds and then attempt to control and manage any residual side effects and remaining issues with therapy. Donnie's life could have gone one of 2 ways: he either died at the beginning of the movies, thus he never met his girlfriend, she never died, he never shot anyone, and the destruction he caused to everyone around him would not have happened. Therefore, if his life ended at the beginning of the movie, it changed the reality of everyone around him and their lives are completely different than what they could have been with him around. One person can have an impact on many people around them, and if you rid the world of that one person it can change the outcome of reality in so many ways. We are all connected in one way or another, and what one person does can affect humanity as a whole.
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The theory of destruction is quite confusing. I understand the verbal part of it as in the Michael Jackson song BAD and how the youth has taken words such as bad to signify good, but I really don't understand the whole idea.
I find it interesting that this whole language idea has been so popular. I hear teens and young people referring to things being "sick" which in the medical field would mean "not well" with some sort of illness, but what they are really saying is that it is really cool!
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Unfortunately, I do not yet know enough about the treatment of mental illness to feel competent in speaking much about it in relation to Derrida's philosophy of destruction, or any any other manner. The only thing that (I think) makes sense to me is that in order to get a full understanding of the patient, it may be necessary to "destruct" the patient's personality and examine it from many different angles before assuming any particular diagnosis or treatment of the patient.
As far as time travel versus schizophrenia in the movie, Donnie Darko, this was probably the most confusing aspect to me. I am not sure where the time travel (if there truly was time travel in the movie) ends and his supposed schizophrenia begins. Is it possible that Donnie was not schizophrenic at all, but was merely experiencing knowledge and people that he gained by time travel? It is an interesting idea, and one that does lead to the question of whether he had a gift or a mental illness. I don't believe that there is enough information to say one way or the other at this point.
Question 3: Again, I absolutely do not have enough knowledge or experience to know what the best way to treat a schizophrenic is at this point. However, if I had to guess, I would say that C, a combination of medication and psychotherapy would be the best ways for TREATMENT, but I doubt that it actually CURES the patient.
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Treating a client with schizophrenia could be a very difficult process because many of these individuals don’t believe they have a problem. They often want to participate in the community by finding work or doing other social activities. I believe a clinician should educate themselves with knowing enough to be able to treat this person. I believe research is needed to understand what has worked in the past from other clients dealing with the same issues. Research could point the therapist in the right direction in regards to dealing with the client. Also, medication has proven to benefit the clients by decreasing their schizophrenic symptoms. Clients dealing with this issue need constant supervision to make sure they are taking their medication as prescribed by the doctor. Therapy may help the client with integrating by into the community. Therapist can assist schizophrenic clients learn appropriate behaviors while they are out in the community. Lastly, therapy could help the client with medication management.
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I do not believe time travel is possible and that is all I have to comment on this subject. I believe Donnie’s schizophrenia worsen when he decided to stop taking his psychotropic medication. I currently work for the department of mental health. Unfortunately, almost every person in my case load has been diagnosed with some type of schizophrenia. Working with this population has allowed me to see how these individuals are tormented by their visual and auditory hallucinations on a daily basis. I do not believe it is it possible for a mental health condition to be both an illness and a gift. As a matter of fact, I do not believe a mental illness can be viewed as a gift at all. My five years of experience working with this population has lead me to believe that one's goal in treating a schizophrenic patient should be curing the patient through a combination of medication and psychotherapy. i have seen one successful case in my five years with the department. This particular client continues to experience visual and auditory hallucinations; however, he reports they are manageable. He reports by taking his medications as prescribed, staying abstinent from drugs and alcohol has allowed him to live "a normal life." i recently closed his case to Kern County Mental Health and by this time he had obtained his Bachelor's degree and planned to enroll in the fall semester to pursue his Master’s degree in social work. He reported his success was due to the fact that his psychiatrist found the right combination of psychotropic medication and also the psychotherapy he received during his four year mental health treatment. He has accepted the fact that he may have to take psych medication for the rest of his life.
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Imagine what the world of psychology would be if therapist would use the philosophy of Derrida's deconstruction How much a restructure of what is known in psychology today would become chaotic. What if we see our clients with problems but in actuality that are genius in their world. Their world is a different dimension from our world, and here we are trying to fix them. But are they really broken,but according to whom. We might be the ones with problems in their world. Why can not people be different in their version of their reality but we as a society seem them as a threat to our reality? Can we not be treating our clients as if they are in their world, but try to bring it to our world. Whose reality is it. Ours or theirs? Treatment of our clients need to be varied as one would be weaving a basket. Where many strands of various treatment and medications are needed to be able to help our clients to survive their reality in our reality. As a therapist we need to make sure that we treat our clients within the competence of scope of therapist. If not then we need to refer them to a therapist who can.
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Derrida's Philosophy of Deconstruction is very complex, but in my most simplistic understanding of the concept of deconstruction, it involves the realization that anything can have more than one meaning....that things can be "deconstructed" to many interpretations, many of which may be contradictory. I think the proposition of is Donnie schizophrenic or does he "have a gift," etc. is a good question. It has made me question the objectivity of diagnosis. It makes me realize that diagnosis is inextricably tied to one's belief system and world view, regardless of how objective we attempt to be. For example, if one claims to "see God," would a strongly religious person be inclined to label that a delusion or believe that the client did have an encounter with God? My brain has been challenged by this idea as I consider what, then, becomes a true diagnosis of "mental illness" versus a different reality or experience. I liked your encouragement to focus on a client's SUFFERING. That is truly where our role lies. Reducing/eliminating suffering. If we focus on that, our perception of the "diagnostic criteria" is irrelevant...just my two cents!
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My understanding of Derrida's philosophy of destruction and it's approach to understanding the treatment mental illness is that "we think, therefore we question". Donnie's mental health condition was suffering, higher tier of thinking of many unknowns and asking questions that only a few had some reasonable answers to. As a therapist we can only minimize his unstable condition, not cure it. The combination of therapeutic interventions such as medication and counseling will help alleviate the intensity of his thought process, but I don't see his difference as being "ill". I see it as someone who needed an outlet, more hands on, visual.
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I do not believe time travel is possible. I believe Donnie’s schizophrenia worsen when he decided to stop taking his psychotropic medication. I currently work for the department of mental health. Unfortunately, almost every person in my case load has been diagnosed with some type of schizophrenia. Working with this population has allowed me to see how these individuals are tormented by their visual and auditory hallucinations on a daily basis. I do not believe it is it possible for a mental health condition to be both an illness and a gift. As a matter of fact, I do not believe a mental illness can be viewed as a gift at all. My five years of experience working with this population has lead me to believe that one's goal in treating a schizophrenic patient should be curing the patient through a combination of medication and psychotherapy.
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